Thursday, January 22, 2009

Polarisation II

I have blogged about this before, but I think another post is due, only because the problem seems to be growing.

Nothing illustrates this better than the local Blogosphere. Look at some of the older posts from 2005. Is it even possible to imagine Indi and Sittingnut having an intelligent conversation?

Well, in 2005 it seemed possible. Just look at these posts and the comments below:

Why I support Ranil

United Lanka, United Party

LTTE Disenfranchises Tamils

I miss the old days, I really do.


indi said...

I was also getting phone calls from people saying they'd throw acid on my parents, so I wouldn't exactly halcyon days.

But Sitting Nut started, I though, very sensibly.

Jack Point said...

Well, things were even better in 2003, but 2005 was not too bad and I agree 100% with your comment on Sittingnut. Maybe if we all sing:

Will the Real Sittingnut please stand up, please stand up...

He'll return to his old form.

pissu perera said...

i could be wrong, in fact i probably am, but i think all the animosity (for lack of a better word) started after this

Jack Point said...

Sorry PP, can't see the connection there, I'm probably not in tune with the gossip.

Anyway I was on about the more general level of polarisation.

Jack Point said...

Ok I scrolled down, now I see what you mean PP.

Rhythmic Diaspora said...

I think the polarisation in the blogosphere is only a refelction of what has happened in the Sri Lankan world now. It is sad but there appears to be little room or tolerance for moderates. The "you're either with us or against us" mentality creates this polarisation.

sittingnut said...

sorry if i don't value acceptance by certain clique, above keeping a clear head and a moral compass.

anyway it is curious how some ppl seem to believe that ability to have "an intelligent conversation" or being "moderate" is depended not on being rational, but on not applying basic moral values and standards on certain individuals' words or actions, or whether or not one shares certain prejudices with certain individuals.
examples include (since indi was mentioned)
when i accuse indi's family of corruption based on evidence and accuse him of hypocrisy, i am not able to have "an intelligent conversation. ". never mind my facts.

2/ when i explain immorality of peacenik position and call some of their specific actions and words ,criminal or dishonest.
now i am not fit for "an intelligent conversation" with their friends . never mind my facts.

of course these same ppl have no problem when their friends (or even me as i do and did ) accuse others of corruption, hypocrisy, or god knows what .

of course these "moderates" certainly had no problem when virulent homophobic attacks were made against me at moju blog by their friends bc i exposed a clear case of plagiarism by peaceniks personally known to them.
(btw pissu perera, that particular incident ( and not padashow blog) is when it seems that these ppl discovered that i cannot have an "intelligent conversation " or is not "moderate")

under that logic it is being "moderate" to accuse military of horrible crimes, or buffalo of killing lasantha, but it is extreme to remind ppl that ltte killed during cfa or support ltte being defeated with violence if needs be. it is moderate to participate in peacnik rallies (with meryn silva or not) but is extreme to remind ppl of that fact. and that appeasement has never worked and is morally repugnant.
oh well
"I was also getting phone calls from people saying they'd throw acid on my parents"
i am sorry hear that. if true, you should report the telephone nos and records to police.

however i will not back away from claiming that there are substantive grounds to indicate that your father was corrupt.
bc that has nothing to do with alleged telephone calls, anymore than your allegations of corruption against other politicians including mahinda buffalo's herd ( with much less grounds)

Jack Point said...

Maybe we need the bloggers of Kottu to sign a CFA......

Perhaps RD, all the way from London, could play the role of the Norwegians??

Rhythmic Diaspora said...

Erm this makes me chuckle. I don't know Indi's Father so cannot make any judgement on whether he's corrupt or not. My gut feeling is that he isn't, for what it's worth.

However, if all Sri Lankans were chucked out of their respective offices for being corrupt, there'd only be about 12 people left wouldn't there?

sittingnut said...

for those with attention deficit disorder -
according to some, "moderates" with "intelligent conversation" must refrain from exposing other party, not criticize peaceniks, criticize buffalo for everything, among other things
i think that being honest and factually accurate, being repelled by immorality of peacenik position, and judging mahinda buffalo by his each action, etc should be valued higher, than striving to be judged a "moderates" with "intelligent conversation" by certain ppl.

sittingnut said...

rhythmic diaspora :

"if all Sri Lankans were chucked out of their respective offices for being corrupt, there'd only be about 12 people left wouldn't there?"
agree. same as my point when i first said indi's father was also corrupt like the rest of political appointees in reply to one of indi's hypocritical anti corruption rants.

btw i don't rely on guts during discussions, but on facts, may be that is not being "moderate"? huh? and "unintelligent" too ?

sittingnut said...

jack point:
"things were even better in 2003, but 2005 was not too bad and I agree 100% with your comment on Sittingnut"
i remember (and have comments in my blog ) encouraging you to start a blog in 2005 .( and i just confirmed that i even sent an email to indi to include you in kottu, though he would have done that anyway after you started this blog) .
but then may be you knew a different "real" sittingnut (you know the one who is "moderate" and "intelligent " on your terms ) earlier ?
may be you should include a link to that sittingnut's blog in 2003 or 2005 when referring to him to avoid confusion bc i never was those things on your terms though you may have mistaken me for him in 2005 due to misreading me or something.

indi said...

OMFG, Sitting Nut spreads this slander just in the hope that something will stick. The allegations are the my father was corrupt, that I wrote the Padashow blog, that I click my own links on Kottu to inflate my stats, etc.

These are all false.

But more to the point, slandering me is OK, but slandering my parents is something else. It's repugnant, and sad, and false.

To the very specific end of defending my fathers good name, even though it has nothing to do with me as a blogger, he posted an open challenge to Sitting Nut which he never responded to.

This is an open challenge to Sittingnut.

I am Indi Samarajiva’s father–Rohan Samarajiva. He is 25 years old and an adult. What he writes in his blog is business; what I write is my business. I think the logical thing for a person who disagrees with Indi’s writing is to debate him on the content of his argument; not attack him personally. But by the general standards of debate I have seen here, I guess personal attacks on the speaker are okay.

What his parents have to do with his opinions, is something I have difficulty in understanding. However, if Sittingnut wishes to state his claims of alleged corruption I am willing to defend myself.

For the record: I was invited to serve as Director General of Telecommunications by the Minister of Telecom in the Mrs Chandrika Kumaratunga’s government, Mr Mangala Samaraweera. I served the period I had agreed to, 18 months, and returned to the US. I was invited to return to Sri Lanka in 2002 by the Minister of Economic Reform in Mr Ranil Wickremesinghe’s government, Mr Milinda Moragoda. I served as team leader in that Ministry until May 2004 and chose to stay back in Sri Lanka. In both cases, my appointments were made by Cabinet.

sittingnut said...

i did respond to it as you can read. there in the linked thread, and before that and later in further details, in indi's own blog.( i usually do not make reference to it in other blogs unless he or other blog owners brings it up first , as here)

i will summarize the main points i made in several comments there.
your father is corrupt as the politicians you accused of corruption. if we judge by the same standards as you use to accuse others. do you deny that?

in addition to those standards there are further grounds for accusing your father of corruption
your father did not do anything even when it was his duty to stop the broadcast of ltte tigers or importation of broadcast equipment
no law suits, no nothing. (in contrast customs ppl did leak news about importation to press so that norwegian had to pay the duty or whatever.)
(is there more? but that is enough for this stage)
if not corruption what motivated his non action?now we shall examine other possible motives
stupidity and incompetence ? is that your explanation? i don't think so.
terrorists are legitimate? do they have a license? not according to public facts . (if there are non public facts that indicate more corruption and cover ups )
what else?
you are not suggesting that this inaction for terrorist behalf is per bono, are you ? whose goodwill is he looking for in that case?

being appointed by cabinet is no excuse. btw

further suspicion comes from his behavior and reaction to other peoples later actions in this regard in contrast his inaction and his obvious sympathy to critics of those actions.

as you can see there are more than enough grounds for accusation.
it is i who did not get response to the challenge

and btw you are padashow. maybe you were not alone but you are responsible.

how do i know ? bc you let the "cat out of the bag" on your own blog (before that i was clear about there being no conclusive proof that it was you and said so ). proof here came through a process of deduction from what you said about several details of something, what padashow said about the same thing, what i know and padashow obliviously did not know. it was a bit like maths.

as for other things, i gave why i think such and such is your doing in those places . and if i am not sure about something i indicated it.

Jack Point said...

Hey Sittingnut Pax.

I'm not calling you unintelligent nor was this post intended to insult you.

The last thing I want to do is start another war amongst bloggers.